why is it prejudice if i enjoy hearing someone talking the standard English over the black English prejudice? before there was such a think as black English there was only one place on earth where English was spoken and that was the in the European continent. With the fusion of different cultures mainly blacks due to slavery, different dialects emerged as a response from there oppression. But does it make it correct? after all it is a "borrowed" language and without the feeling of true "legion" to the origins and rules of this new language it is very easy to just play with it and make it a means of "hurting" the rulers and at the same time dissociate yourself from a ugly beginning.

Correct Language

Language varies from each part of the world. Even in the United States there are different parts of culture. In the United States there are dialects of language. I lived in the Southern United States there are different dialects of language. One of the most unique of these is called Gullah. Gullah is a creole language. It is made up of Elizabethan English and Western dialect. It is one of a few that has a written language. There are many different sounds. I found it to be a very interesting blending of a creole.
Posted by Matthew Barlow at 7:08 PM 0 comments

Corectness and Prejudice - Interaction for preservation

I found this subject of correctness and prejudice in language such a universal occurrence. Every single person I talk to about this issue could immediately relate to the phenomenon. Each person, no matter what their provenance, is aware of language varieties of their country of origin. The elite leaders of societies create social classes and regulate the uniformity and functionality of each one of its group. By conforming to the rules people ensure their belonging within their social group, as well as their protection from possible harm from other groups. To support their economic need, leaders use social and political discourses to create invisible boundaries that control people. However, I think that people want freedom and flexibility in their interactions and in the way they conduct their daily family and social lives. I believe that this tension leads people to adhere to their own subgroups and defend their social norms through language. A group that creates its norms also creates its “category and identity”. The larger a group, the stronger it is, thus a greater chance of survival. To accept the different ways of speaking is to recognize our true human nature. From now on, I am going to listen carefully to the sounds around me.

Perfect grammer can be bad

This is for the topic of correct language use. Through interviewing 5 different people for our assignment I learned that people get annoyed when other people use perfect grammar around them. They all said it makes them feel like that person is talking down to them and makes an awkward feeling when communicating with them. I found that I felt more comfortable talking with the millionaire that had very poor grammar because I did not have to worry about how I sounded talking to him. I think it is ok to use grammar "incorrectly" rather in just a different style. Unless you have no idea what the person is talking about there is no reason to look down at them. That millionaire had terrible grammar and didn't care, thats who he was and he made it big financially without needing perfect language use.

In Response to the Professor's Questions About Correctness and Prejudice

1) To be perfectly honest, I don't know that I could draw that line; I know that it exists, so to speak, but I think it is less structural than we would assign it to be at first glance. What I mean to say is that I think the line is consistently in flux, but still effects the distinction between "correct" and "incorrect".

I think, barring total relativism, it is in the best interests of the individual to adapt to language shifts, because to fight against the line-in-flux will result in social exclusion. I don't mean to get too theoretical, but I think a "meta-understanding" of the correct/incorrect distinction is critical.

2) I am finding that language-based racism is perhaps one of the most subtle forms that exists in our society, and in that regard, perhaps one of the most pernicious. Most people are quick to defend themselves as not being racist when someone faces them with their language-based discrimination, and they then try to base their discrimination in fact, to illustrate that they are only stating the natural truth; this posturing on their seems reminiscent of claims to a scientific basis to more overt forms of racism from the past.

i'll try again RE-do sep 27th

Okay so I am trying this again since my first attempt was lost forever in the info highway. I don't really remember what my origional blog entailed so I will re create.I feel that spoken language english in this case is very interesting. We all in some form speak it whether it be very little or alot. Yet we all use different words and phrases. We all relate on different levels. For instance if our first language isn't english we relate with non english speakers, because we know how it feels to not be understood or we feel we can't express the way we feel. I also know how this feels being an english speaker learning Portuguese in Brazil. I believe people are treated differently depending on how they speak. I also feel if your here in the good old USA you should speak English it's the chosen language it's vital today. I am very split on this subject on one hand it bugs me when people use poor grammar but in the same sense I use my own made up words and have a Utah accent that in some cases is just as bad as poor grammar. So go figure were all doing something wrong somehow so why not tolerate everyone fore who they are and be happy?

the 2nd blog??? or blanket statment.

so i have some confusing on what this blog is on but what ever i am pressing forward anyway. if i get it totally wrong i have a disclaimer of sorts. correct grammar and English use.... well as you might find throughout this blog i might not use perfect grammar. although on the other hand i am aware of having an extensive vocabulary, although i rarely use complex vocabulary in my average communications. i tend to get negative feed back when i do. (sorry i tend to ramble)1, back to the subject. i haven't come in contact with any one who has brought to my attention that i use bad grammar but that doesn't really count for anything. seeing as most people in American culture, behave in the manner of avoiding anything that may be potentially hurtful. " am i ugly, uhh... no. your just unique looking" sorry I'm wandering again. now don't get me wrong, i can tell when some one is using horrible grammar and incorrect word usage. so stating that I'm unsure of my own grammatically use. i shouldn't be critical on those who are using incorrect grammar or an limited vocabulary. that being said. i am a big fan of the English language, err... well language in general. i have heard that the language you use has a direct correlation with the range of thoughts and behaviors of the user. so thus we come to the point of why i have an appreciation for the English language. unlike many other languages English is very flexible,and conducive to creativity in its use. words, grammar, pronunciation, tones, meanings and phrases. you can change or bend most of it and still make sense to most. or sense to just a selective group. so what I'm getting after is: i think English helps those who speak it to be more creative. so what I'm trying to say for the entire blog on correct grammar and English use: in my opinion. i prefer good grammar and a use of a big vocabulary as well as creativity usage. such as complex slang. i don't mind simple slang, common grammar and vocabulary for personal conversations. i think proper grammar and vocabulary use is important if your trying to be understood be every one easily. thank you.
I'm a horrible speller. spell check is my friend.

A rant

I love language. I've been thinking extensively about different languages and what appeals to me and what doesn't. The only real conclusion I could come to was that I love the sound of words rolling off of people's tongues whether it is English, Ebonics, German, or Spanish. There is something intimate, open, and truly beautiful about it. Language is how we communicate and how we express ourselves. (For those of you that haven't figured it out, I love to express myself.)

As for being labeled the "prescriptivist" of the class...I'm not sure if I am completely comfortable with that. I've been evaluating how I speak to different people as well as how I'm judging people by their speech and language. I do draw parallels between how people speak and what that makes them as people. I was raised by a first generation American that placed a great emphasis on the proper usage of the English language. When people speak a variety of English that doesn't follow my ideas of what is proper it truly does bother me; I can understand that different people have different methods of identifying with language and the self, but it still drives me batty. Just as a mentioned, I do judge people by the way they speak. In certain situations, I think it is appropriate to use a particular brand of "proper speak." There are different varieties that should be respected in certain social settings. It's when people don't respect these boundaries that "improper use" really bothers me.

:) I'm not so sure if any of that made sense, but that's all I can really think to write.

#2

English is a dynamic language, it is inconceivable to think that in my lifetime english will be dissolved into a useless language. I find that english has grown more since the start of the information age than ever before, it will continue to evolve and eventually become the most widely used language(except for binary). There are always going to be individuals who consider themselves purists, they will be part of the clic that makes rules about grammar and enforces those rules onto other individuals.

I find that the clic mentality is the main reason people to feel as strongly about correct grammar as they do about breathing regularly. People love to feel accepted and respected, that is why people form clics. Everyone at one point in time has been corrected when they used language that was not considered correct, and some of us felt ashamed when that happened. Most will take that experience as if the person correcting them now has a sort of power over them; the individual who felt ashamed will then forward this message onto the next person who makes a mistake.

I find that it is more important to be able to communicate with a variety of individuals than to hold conversations with a few. Feeling inconvenienced through language is something I have dealt with at work, but I am still able to communicate and take care of my customer.

difference in language

I used to feel awkward around people that i felt i didn't have language in common with. It is a protective trait almost to stay in a comfortable situation around people who talk like you do. But after making many friends in the army who were from the south, i learned how to understand the differences in the language, but that it didn't mean that we could never understand each other. we all learned a lot from each other, and i developed a deeper appriciation of other dialects, even if i never would speak it in my life. Diversity is what makes America unique and our language reflects that the most.

Blurry Lines

It doesn't take much for us to feel alienated through a different language being used, especially in groups. Language is one of the many tools we like to use to categorize and stereotype people we meet. Language is always a reflection of a person's background, so language differences can sometimes mean a great many other differences in beliefs.

I work as a designer for a sign company, where we have many customers that are immigrants from a number of different parts of the world. I have to constantly deal with language effecting the way I handle my job. It can be frustrating trying to produce a logo or graphic for someone that can only express themselves with a limited vocabulary of what I can understand. Once a guy brought in his 10 year old son, who had been learning English in public school for only a few months, to translate what he needed to say to me. It can also be fun to teach a little bit of English, and also learn something about another language. It is hard sometimes when a co-worker expresses his belief that everyone should speak English, because I don't agree.

I think it is interesting that Canada has a portion of people that speak French, and that it once almost divided the country into two. I wonder why the French language did not remain as popular in the French settlements along the Mississippi river in the United States? The northern/mid-western accent must have some amount of French influence, though I can't hear it at all.

I do enjoy listening to accents from all over the world, especially the different variations of U.S. English. I also think it can be fun to visit a place where you are the one with the weird accent. It makes it more obvious that people do treat you differently based on the way you talk. It is not only in the pronunciation that I notice geographic differences, but also in the words and wordings that are used. What "sounds right" to one person doesn't always to another, so I think that correctness is (and should be) relative to the people that use it.

I don't really like the idea that there are organizations prescribing the way that a language should be used by a certain group, especially if the group doing the prescribing doesn't really relate to the group that it is being prescribed to. Any of these organizations serve us better when the focus is more on defining the different ways that language is naturally used, rather than how it should or shouldn't be used. But, maybe without all the assigned rules handed out through history, we would have mutilated English (and maybe even French) into even more divisions than it currently has, and someone from California would not be able to understand someone from New York?

I don't think that language is something that can be controlled very drastically by the rules that a government or official language association tells us to follow. It seems more likely that a common usage would easily override any rule.

Correct Language

Language is not and never has been a concrete concept. There is always room for adaptation and change. I do however think that are correct and incorrect ways of speaking. I am not obsessed with proper grammar but grammar does exist for a purpose. I find that the more educated members of a society will speak more correctly in a grammatical sense in a language which they speak fluently. Less educated individuals tend to use more slang and are less articulate. I much prefer to listen to an educated person speak because they have a broader variety of vocabulary to choose from and can communicate more efficiently. Maybe this is a prejudice of mine but I am not partial to slang.

Those who are speaking a second language and do not have good grammar or a wide vocabulary I do not think ill of, however. In this case my views about literacy do not apply. I understand it must be difficult to learn another language and I applaud those who try.

As far as the English language is concerned, it is inevitable that new words or phrases will be adopted and the language will change with time, but I refuse to believe the language will just go hell in a handcart. There will always be rules about usage that one should at least be educated about if not try to follow with their speech. I do not speak perfectly but I can recognize by errors. It is important to be able to understand the proper usage of a language so that one can read books written in the proper usage and comprehend them. This is crucial for education purposes.

Different Social Settings

I'll have to be honest, I really didnt noticed the different styles of communicating I was using in different settings until beginning this class. Its a very intriguing thing to realize that people can change everything (attitude, tone, vocabulary, etc.) around different people or different situations.

When I am at work I notice my voice changes completely when I am at a table taking an order, than when Im in back talking to my co-workers. My family are the main people to consistently point this out, when they come to see me. It's so strange but its an automatic reaction to speak more clearly and in a higher pitched tone when im taking orders. Another time i noticed at work when i really change is when the owners of the bar come in. I immediately start working more, and try to keep busy in front of them. To me its not just the language that changes in every situation and setting but my whole persona.

In social settings I feel like I am usually the same person, talking the same way and acting like myself, but I noticed that when I am with different groups I act completely different. In one group I enjoy being the life of the party, the one telling all the crazy stories and making people laugh. Then there are those groups where for some reason I become very shy and talk very little, if at all. It is a very confusing but interesting thing to notice. Im eager to learn more!! :)

Correct language can be seen as a way of diminishing a single individual or a particular group, based on their ethical background or simply where they were raised at. I see it all the time even among people born in the US. "Oh, back East?" or "from the South"? they laugh at their accents, to which i personally admit being guilty of. I mean no disrespect i just find it interesting and funny. Whether we like it or not there are rules in every area of our lives, social, personal, school......., the same with language, if we ignore those rules and start bending them in a way that communication will be compromised chaos will be happen. I take pride on speaking correctly a certain language whether it's my own or another. So "correct" exists for a reason, we use words to express ourselves and lives depend on language and how you relay a message, can decide the outcome of a critical matter. If you cannot understand what's being presented to you war can be one consequence, language is vital for our survival, it's like air can't live without it.

Correctness and Prejudice

I beleive that I am very tolerent to what is accepatable in terms of language. There are always boundaries that people must follow. I have seen situations where an incorrect use of a word has offended a few people. This is something that can be damaging and people need to careful of. In terms of correctness when dealing with language and prejudice through immigrants. It is important to have some kind of knowledge of different cultures before speaking certain comments. I do not beleive that English isn't being spoken at all or that it is an incorrect form. I personally think that English has evolved into what it is. I think that we are speaking the way English is supposed to be spoken. I know a lot of people would disagree and say the slang and improper english is taken over the correct use of the language. I do not beleive that it is racist if the language change does have an inconvience to the speakers of the established language. English has become what english is. That is not to say that I always agree or think it is cool what people use as words in today's society.

I honestly could relay to this cartoon because my dad is very strict when it comes to the use of proper words. it is admirable and impressive and i don't see anything wrong with using words the right way. it shows respect and also that you are an educated person that you have pride on how you talk. I wonder if the author of this article has some type of secret "hate" towards people who choose to speak properly by using proper grammar? the one about the father and the kid talking about mom and making fun of her it seemed yes funny but at the same time again made me wonder why didn't he embrace the idea of a child being molded correctly in her language skills?.

My definition of correct language is the proper use of words i choose in order to communicate my thoughts in a clear and respectful manner to the other party without misunderstandings. Words have power and they can save or ruin lives. I heard several people saying "I would rather someone hit me than to tell me something hurtful" words stay with you for the rest of your life reason why psychiatrists do well. There are rules and regulations in all areas of our lives, work, school, church, family....... without them there would be chaos. language is an essential part of the human race it is vital for our survival. if we neglect it by allowing the breaking of rules and the making up of words that only make sense to a chimp we are heading down a spiral of self-destruction, because we no longer have the ability to communicate in a way that will not create confusion.

it was a very interesting article, the amount of rules and correctness or at least what it's thought to be correct is at the heart of discussion in many high rank circles of scholars and even among the more simple minds. I'm old fashioned, i admire a person that knows how to speak and expresses himself in a way that is different from what we hear in today's society. language has definitely devolved(hope it's a word) i can see the difference just by watching old movies and the way children address their parents or a simple conversation among adults, compared to today's society a lot has changed. Arguing about rules from one language to another is a waste of time, because there are rules that may apply to one and not the other. however within one language the emphasizes on grammatical rules is essential for the formation of a thought or idea to be properly relayed without running the risk of any misunderstanding. there will always be disagreements among scholars about the usage of proper language and among the simple just as long as they understand each other i guess it's all good

What is Correct Language?

Since I was a little kid, I have been fascinated with language. Not all of the experiences have been a pleasant one though. I remember one incident in primary school in my native country--Venezuela. A math teacher wrote an incorrect word on the board; I proceeded to point out the mistake. She replied by saying that her class was not a grammar class, therefore it did not matter. To this day, this experience has taught me that if I am not asked for help in matters of language correctness, I won’t volunteer.

After reading Finegan’s article, I have to admit that I am very aware of the proper use of the English language. I presume this need for perfection has to do with the fact that English is not my first language. Somehow, I feel the obligation and need to speak it and write it with the least amount of mistakes possible. The reason could be that most immigrants--like myself--are more self-conscious when speaking.

Knowing and learning rules of word usage such as who and whom, which and that, etc… is enjoyable to me. I should say that I identify myself with having more prescriptive tendencies than descriptive ones.

On the other hand, throughout the years I have come to realize that variety of language forms or linguistic varieties are interesting and fascinating. I believe such array of possibilities is what makes a language special, enjoyable and unique. Regardless of the generalized opinion on Ebonics, for instance, I find it quite entertaining and fun.

There is no doubt that languages are prone to changes based on experiences, advances, and trends. Variations of forms are more and more accepted. But ultimately, what really matters is getting the message across, regardless of forms and accents.


Jairo Toro

Follow up on class today

Hi All,

Just a follow-up on the class today because I felt like we didn't have time to really get at the central question of what the ideal 'line' is between prescriptivism and descriptivism. We all seemed to agree that there is some line, some consideration that needs to be had to keep continuity in language, but it wasn't clear what everyone thought that line should be.

Nunberg wrote: "The long run will surely prove the linguists right: English will survive whatever "abuses" its current critics complain of. And by that I mean not just that people will go on using English and its descendants in their daily commerce but that they will continue to make art with it as well. Yet it is hard to take comfort in the scholars' sanguine detachment. We all know what Keynes said about the long run, and in the meantime does it really matter not at all how we choose to speak and write?"

In my opinion, Nunberg is creating a false contradiction here, posing only two options available: either bow to prescriptivist claims of abuses of language, or accept that the English language will become completely chaotic. Neither of these are realistic. But, what are elements of a language that need to be enforced for lack of a better term? Where do you draw the line?

Tiffany